www.midwestcaferacing.com

Midwest Cafe Racing
It is currently Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:25 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:11 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:56 am
Posts: 811
Location: St Louis, South Side
At some point soon Josh is going to let people know at least on FB that we are having this conversation. We may be hearing from others, I hope.

Todd I would think that other orgs would ask if there was any doubt about ones status they signed up for. CCS has earlier in the year. Also we could still have an official designation, just not recognized in the results of our races. The race committee should review race results every year and make advancement recommendations anyway.
If our sport really grows as we fantasize it will we can go back to class divisions at the start of a season.

_________________
Jim Probst

Thank you for supporting the Roadracing World Action Fund!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:03 am 
Offline
Track Day Novice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:59 pm
Posts: 126
Just to comment as someone who has only done one novice track day and is in no condition to start racing anytime soon. However, I think I would be less likely to start racing if it is one combined race (amateur + expert) since it would perhaps be too big of a step up and I wouldn't be competitive against seasoned racers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:15 am 
Offline
Gp Racer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:34 pm
Posts: 1960
Magruder13 wrote:
Just to comment as someone who has only done one novice track day and is in no condition to start racing anytime soon. However, I think I would be less likely to start racing if it is one combined race (amateur + expert) since it would perhaps be too big of a step up and I wouldn't be competitive against seasoned racers.


That is exactly my concern. Extremely good point! And some of the guys close to the podium this year in amateur are probably looking forward to a podium next year.

_________________
Todd #84
Chris #74

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:48 am 
Offline
Track Day Intermediate

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:16 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Wood River, IL
Maybe this has been said, but I missed it.....

Something to consider when thinking about multiple sprint races. Sure, the actual racing time would be the same as what we are dealing with now. However, we would be doubling the grid/start time each time we add another spring. That takes away from the track day guys time. The track day guys are what allows us to have our events. We do good to break even on the races- they are by no means a money maker for MCRA.

_________________
MCRA Treasurer
Buell 1125r #598 (Buella)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:06 am 
Offline
Track Day Advanced
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:57 am
Posts: 434
Location: St Peters
Magruder13 wrote:
Just to comment as someone who has only done one novice track day and is in no condition to start racing anytime soon. However, I think I would be less likely to start racing if it is one combined race (amateur + expert) since it would perhaps be too big of a step up and I wouldn't be competitive against seasoned racers.


Worse excuse in the books, and it gets used all the time.

If a rider is serious about racing, they'll race, because it's the best way to get faster and to become competitive. Not many can expect to win or even podium their first race, there are those few outliers.

Look at the 2012 sportsman class, Tommy Specker and Andre Taylor, no way I'm competitive against those guys and this is in the "beginner" class. Point is there's always going to be extremely fast guys no matter the class. 2012 is the same year Todd got his race license and now he's running 2nd in GT amatuer. Robby the guy leading GT amateur I think just got his race license last year.

Ask any racer his lap times during a track day and then during a race. It's typically a second or 2 faster during the race. Why? Because it's hard to replicate the conditions (mentally, physically, clear track etc) of a race during a lapping session. There's nothing like chasing down the rider in front of you and passing them for a position.

The skill of racers range, you'll find someone to battle it out with. If all you want is a trophy then you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

With all that said I don't know how I feel about combining Expert and Amateur, I've raced against expert level racers every race for almost 2 years and it has taught me a ton!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:06 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Beaufort, Mo
So who pays for the added track time if you go to that format? If you add an hour to the day that cost money, are you going to make the track day guys pay for it? They complain for the fact they only get 6 sessions while every other organizations is 7 or 8, and the cost is the same as them.

So now MCRA has to pay that price for the extra hour of track time, and we all know the races alone will not cover that cost.

I know this is an organization that races, but we always seem to forget about the Track day rider that is truly paying to rent the track so we can race....

I say drop the races at the end of the day, put two 6 lap sprints in at lunch and give the track day folks their 7th session.

_________________
Image
Image
KCCO


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:41 am 
Offline
Track Day Intermediate

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:16 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Wood River, IL
I think other organizations like to use the 7th/8th session as a marketing tool more than anything. Late in the afternoon, the number of riders on the track starts to thin out....especially on the really hot days in the middle of the season. I do agree that you can't more or less make the track day guys pay for the added time we use the track (if there is extra track time needed) though.

_________________
MCRA Treasurer
Buell 1125r #598 (Buella)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:27 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Beaufort, Mo
bumpnzx3 wrote:
I think other organizations like to use the 7th/8th session as a marketing tool more than anything. Late in the afternoon, the number of riders on the track starts to thin out....especially on the really hot days in the middle of the season. I do agree that you can't more or less make the track day guys pay for the added time we use the track (if there is extra track time needed) though.



50%of them load up, that leave the other 50% that want to keep riding. Just food for thought :)

_________________
Image
Image
KCCO


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:28 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:56 am
Posts: 811
Location: St Louis, South Side
tfs32 wrote:
So who pays for the added track time if you go to that format? If you add an hour to the day that cost money, are you going to make the track day guys pay for it? They complain for the fact they only get 6 sessions while every other organizations is 7 or 8, and the cost is the same as them.

So now MCRA has to pay that price for the extra hour of track time, and we all know the races alone will not cover that cost.

I know this is an organization that races, but we always seem to forget about the Track day rider that is truly paying to rent the track so we can race....

I say drop the races at the end of the day, put two 6 lap sprints in at lunch and give the track day folks their 7th session.


We are not other organizations and dont aspire to be.

If you read through the thread you would see that no one is talking about adding an extra hour for racing.

_________________
Jim Probst

Thank you for supporting the Roadracing World Action Fund!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:29 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Beaufort, Mo
rainman wrote:
tfs32 wrote:
So who pays for the added track time if you go to that format? If you add an hour to the day that cost money, are you going to make the track day guys pay for it? They complain for the fact they only get 6 sessions while every other organizations is 7 or 8, and the cost is the same as them.

So now MCRA has to pay that price for the extra hour of track time, and we all know the races alone will not cover that cost.

I know this is an organization that races, but we always seem to forget about the Track day rider that is truly paying to rent the track so we can race....

I say drop the races at the end of the day, put two 6 lap sprints in at lunch and give the track day folks their 7th session.


We are not other organizations and dont aspire to be.

If you read through the thread you would see that no one is talking about adding an extra hour for racing.


If you look at the schedule that drew posted as an aspersion, it has a race at 5:40. Putting the track live until 6

_________________
Image
Image
KCCO


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:30 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:56 am
Posts: 811
Location: St Louis, South Side
crash wrote:
Magruder13 wrote:
Just to comment as someone who has only done one novice track day and is in no condition to start racing anytime soon. However, I think I would be less likely to start racing if it is one combined race (amateur + expert) since it would perhaps be too big of a step up and I wouldn't be competitive against seasoned racers.


That is exactly my concern. Extremely good point! And some of the guys close to the podium this year in amateur are probably looking forward to a podium next year.


I thought it might be a sensitive point as well Todd thats why I was hoping more people would chime in.

_________________
Jim Probst

Thank you for supporting the Roadracing World Action Fund!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:32 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Beaufort, Mo
And putting amateur and expert together is just going to piss people off, more than already are

_________________
Image
Image
KCCO


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:34 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:56 am
Posts: 811
Location: St Louis, South Side
More than they already are. Sounds like you're pissed off Tommy.

_________________
Jim Probst

Thank you for supporting the Roadracing World Action Fund!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:38 am 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Beaufort, Mo
rainman wrote:
More than they already are. Sounds like you're pissed off Tommy.



I'm always pissed Jim, it's in my nature lately. But not in this thread am I pissed

_________________
Image
Image
KCCO


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:50 am 
Offline
Track Day Advanced
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:57 am
Posts: 434
Location: St Peters
tfs32 wrote:
rainman wrote:
tfs32 wrote:
So who pays for the added track time if you go to that format? If you add an hour to the day that cost money, are you going to make the track day guys pay for it? They complain for the fact they only get 6 sessions while every other organizations is 7 or 8, and the cost is the same as them.

So now MCRA has to pay that price for the extra hour of track time, and we all know the races alone will not cover that cost.

I know this is an organization that races, but we always seem to forget about the Track day rider that is truly paying to rent the track so we can race....

I say drop the races at the end of the day, put two 6 lap sprints in at lunch and give the track day folks their 7th session.


We are not other organizations and dont aspire to be.

If you read through the thread you would see that no one is talking about adding an extra hour for racing.


If you look at the schedule that drew posted as an aspersion, it has a race at 5:40. Putting the track live until 6


Last race would start Saturday at 5:20 Track would be cold by 5:40.

Aspersion? If that is truly what you meant to put, I posted the schedule as an example of what a 4 race per day weekend could look like.

If we added a 7th session with sprint races at lunch track would go cold at 6 last novice session starting at 5:40. Which i'm not against, I know track riders would love the extra session. It's one reason we combined GTL/smallbikes to give riders more track time.

2014 season saturday afternoon last 2 sessions were only 15 minutes because of the 2 races and the race clinic mock race.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:00 pm 
Offline
Privateer Racer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 992
Location: Beaufort, Mo
Sorry I was auto corrected, I ment to say aspiration

_________________
Image
Image
KCCO


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:16 pm 
Offline
Track Day Advanced
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:57 am
Posts: 434
Location: St Peters
tfs32 wrote:
Sorry I was auto corrected, I ment to say aspiration


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:40 pm 
Offline
Track Day Novice

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 191
If combining expert and amateur counts for contingency grid spots im game for it as long as they are still allowed to run whatever color number plate as they are classified as with other orgs. I hate to see some of the 390 guys swapping plates between weekends to race with 2 orgs.

_________________
Joe Behlmann EX #141
636-248-4713
Bridgestone Race Tire Service


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:28 pm 
Offline
Track Day Novice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:59 pm
Posts: 126
Hey guys, tell me your thoughts on this, why don't we do some races Saturday and different ones on Sunday? How many people run Saturday and Sunday vs one day or the other? Grids might be more full and we can free up track time? Trying to put some outside perspective into this. Please don't hate me!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:45 pm 
Offline
Track Day Novice

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:54 pm
Posts: 23
i apologize if I skipped over something, but I have a few thoughts...although I only plan on racing your Hallet rounds.

About 2 races instead of 1: I think 2 shorter races instead of 1 long race could have the benefit of making the club more money. Even if you do $70 for the first race and $50 for the second (in pretty much every organization, pricing is tiered for more than 1 race), I would think a lot of people would do both if they had the opportunity. Say you do a 600 class, which would include 636 zx6, 675 daytonas, and 848 ducs and then a separate 750+ class that you can 'race up' in. I know personally, I would do both races on my 600.

Having said that, I can absolutely see the benefit of a longer race, because it doesn't always mean the fastest person wins the race, but also the person who trains for it.

Trophies: The CMRA has a trophy order form at the beginning (or at any point) of the season. If you want trophies, you fill out the form. Their format is different though, because the CMRA gives out trophies from Round X at Round Y (the following round). I'm not sure if y'all give the same trophies every round, but it could be as simple as if they don't want it, they can 'donate' it back to the MCRA and then you just need a new sticker for the next round.

Combined amateur and expert: Are we saying that the race is ran at the same time, but still 2 different classes - or are we saying that the race is combined and there's only 1 class? If it's just one class, I'd be completely against it for a multitude of reasons. First of all is safety. If you have a guy who is a slow novice and he signs up first - then you have an expert racer sign up last - it's not going to be a pretty start. There's a reason why no organization does this and it has nothing to do with grid numbers. "So we'll just put the experts in the front and novices in back" - then you're not being fair to the novices. They automatically get put in the back but are still competing for a podium. Another great reason for being separate is because I've never met a racer that wasn't competitive. As a novice, you always have a chance of winning if you're relatively fast. I was in a race earlier this year where a guy wrecked in a previous race that was a top 4 rider so he didn't start, another guy wrecked in the second lap that was also a top 4 rider, another top 4 rider wrecked on the last lap, and my chain broke on the last lap. So the guy that would barely see the top 5 ended up winning the race. That's a pretty extreme case, but as a novice, you should always have a chance. Someone wrecks, gets tired, runs off, mechanical issues - there's always a chance. If you had experts in that, you don't have a chance. Experts are going to win every time. Maybe it's not as bad in the MCRA, but in the CMRA, the top level experts are riding $20k plus R6s that are putting down 135 hp to wheel. The every day racer is not going to be able to compete with that and chances are they might not even start racing - or it'll be much shorter lived.

Now to save time, I'm all for combined races -- even with one wave starts. Put 3-4 rows between experts and novices and let them all start out at the same time. I actually prefer this for a few different reasons. If you have small expert grids, it might help some of the slower experts be able to have some fun racing some of the faster novices. The faster novices will also benefit to be able to catch a tow from some of the faster guys - and will also help those novices dip their toes into expert racing instead of just being 'thrown to the wolves'. I know it's helped me tremendously when I've raced in some combined expert/novice grid races as a novice.

Just my .02 cents from someone who rarely races with the MCRA and could be way off base with my thinking compared to your core group of racers.
-Cody


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group