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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:56 pm 
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I read almost all of this and here's my two cents.

Grom racing would be fun if we had a lot of equally speced/tuned bikes. I think we should run stock exhaust pipes. I'm not upgrading the exhaust and I don't want to pay $400 just to be competitive when everyone could just run stock. That being said, I highly doubt that even with closely matched bikes that anyone would get within competition range between Adam and Cameron. Those guys ride their groms weekly and race each other all the time. They have more grom seat time than I have on my R3.

For the Grom ECU hacking, I could whip up a sensor that we could attach to the coil of a Grom to read in the rev limiter. I could probably whip one up by this weekend if we really wanted to try it. Literally just use a microcontroller to read time between sparks, calculate that out to find RPM and have a 10% threshold in the rulebook. It would take 2 wires to hookup, one to sense the ignition, the other to ground to chassis.

Actually, my voltmeter will read frequency / pulse width, don't even need to make anything... Might even be able to have it passively sense....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Like Chris said, my problem with allowing aftermarket exhaust is I imagine I would HAVE to have an aftermarket exhaust if I wanted to be competitive with those that have them. If not, what's the incentive of running an aftermarket exhaust?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Magruder13 wrote:
Grom racing would be fun if we had a lot of equally speced/tuned bikes. I think we should run stock exhaust pipes. I'm not upgrading the exhaust and I don't want to pay $400 just to be competitive when everyone could just run stock. That being said, I highly doubt that even with closely matched bikes that anyone would get within competition range between Adam and Cameron. Those guys ride their groms weekly and race each other all the time. They have more grom seat time than I have on my R3.


Cameron and I arent doing anything that everyone else couldnt be doing, though. With the Groms, you just have to be willing to ride CLOSE together because thats the only way youre going to get a useful draft. If you cant get a draft, youre going to get left behind. Thats just racing.. and to me, its more "pure" racing when you have these machines built to spec that is very similar and the rider skill is the determining factor (and rider weight, I guess... some of you better get on a diet!!).

Im not sure Id be too worried about the 67mph limit on the Z125 on these tracks, either. Im willing to bet that even down the straight at Gateway, in a full tuck, with a draft and a lightweight rider like me or Cam, nobody is going to be seeing more than 65 by the end of the straight. DEFINITELY not between any of the other corners or through the goat trail.

I like the thought that you guys are putting in to this stuff, for sure. You just have to keep in mind that it was literally a battle to even get this to occur because the staff at the events, so far, have been short and everyone is already stressing about doing just their normal jobs. This Grom stuff definitely has the potential to breathe some new life in to the club but I definitely dont want it to come at the cost of overburdening our staff and ending up being even more short staffed, ya know?

Id say the best thing you guys can do, at this point, would be to spread the word and get more people involved. If it becomes a big thing, we can make the changes that are needed. Right now, though, we had 3 Groms in our first event. Unless the grid sizes grow, I cant see the club wanting to invest a whole bunch of effort in to it.

Definitely keep the discussion coming, though. Im not trying to shoot down the inflow of ideas. There has been a lot of thought and discussion around a bunch of this stuff that you guys havent been a part of, unfortunately. Theres always room for improvement but Im just saying that right now, the rules are the way they are for a reason. They were never meant to be set in stone and we figured that we would need to make some adjustments as the popularity increased and we got more people participating. :-)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:32 pm 
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crash wrote:
Like Chris said, my problem with allowing aftermarket exhaust is I imagine I would HAVE to have an aftermarket exhaust if I wanted to be competitive with those that have them. If not, what's the incentive of running an aftermarket exhaust?


The thought was more that EVERYONE (like 99.9%) who owns a Grom puts an exhaust on it. Not everyone does an intake, but you can simply remove the lid from the air box and get pretty close gains for free. Seriously... I dont know of a single person who owns a Grom that keeps the stock exhaust on them.... besides McGruber. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:34 pm 
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The Grom thing was/is meant to be fun. Get out there messing around with your friends and raise a little money for the Action Fund while doing it. There will be people that will mod their bikes and people that won't. There's no trophy to be had or anything of that nature - just go out and rub elbows with whoever it is that you/your bike are competitive with (be it battling for 1st/2nd place or 9th/10th place). If there's nothing to win, who cares where you place. Did you have fun? Did you have another person to battle with (and if not, was it the power/lack of power that held you back)? It was never intended to turn into big mess of a mod debate like the 250's/300's did and then again with the 390's. The current format is quick and easy. We don't have the time nor the manpower to do extensive tech checks and police modifications. Go out, have fun, and we raise a little money for the Action Fund.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:36 pm 
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green_bread wrote:
crash wrote:
Like Chris said, my problem with allowing aftermarket exhaust is I imagine I would HAVE to have an aftermarket exhaust if I wanted to be competitive with those that have them. If not, what's the incentive of running an aftermarket exhaust?


The thought was more that EVERYONE (like 99.9%) who owns a Grom puts an exhaust on it. Not everyone does an intake, but you can simply remove the lid from the air box and get pretty close gains for free. Seriously... I dont know of a single person who owns a Grom that keeps the stock exhaust on them.... besides McGruber. :D


He's going to get you for that. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:37 pm 
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bumpnzx3 wrote:
The Grom thing was/is meant to be fun. Get out there messing around with your friends and raise a little money for the Action Fund while doing it. There will be people that will mod their bikes and people that won't. There's no trophy to be had or anything of that nature - just go out and rub elbows with whoever it is that you/your bike are competitive with (be it battling for 1st/2nd place or 9th/10th place). If there's nothing to win, who cares where you place. Did you have fun? Did you have another person to battle with (and if not, was it the power/lack of power that held you back)? It was never intended to turn into big mess of a mod debate like the 250's/300's did and then again with the 390's. The current format is quick and easy. We don't have the time nor the manpower to do extensive tech checks and police modifications. Go out, have fun, and we raise a little money for the Action Fund.


Just discussing the possibilities is all, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

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Last edited by crash on Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Alright Alright Alright. Let's start off by going over the fuel controller. On big bike it's a necessity but on a grom with just a exhaust and a intake you don't really need it. You can if you wanted and would recommend if you did a big bore but non of that matter for this Grom Prix. It should be just like the golden era of the 250 when all you could do was exhaust, intake "POD", suspension, and tires. You don't have a speaks $400 on a exhaust considering you can buy cheaper ones that will do the job just fine. I run a dual exhaust set up from over seas and it performs great! Some of you are getting way bent out of shape and technical about a grom. Just run the basic typical mods and giver her hell while laughing and chasing down some bros on the track!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Redleg93 wrote:
Alright Alright Alright. Let's start off by going over the fuel controller. On big bike it's a necessity but on a grom with just a exhaust and a intake you don't really need it. You can if you wanted and would recommend if you did a big bore but non of that matter for this Grom Prix. It should be just like the golden era of the 250 when all you could do was exhaust, intake "POD", suspension, and tires. You don't have a speaks $400 on a exhaust considering you can buy cheaper ones that will do the job just fine. I run a dual exhaust set up from over seas and it performs great! Some of you are getting way bent out of shape and technical about a grom. Just run the basic typical mods and giver her hell while laughing and chasing down some bros on the track!


*Searching for the "like" button that Facebook has*

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Yeah, but we don't want Steve reshaping his crank or whatever he does. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:54 pm 
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I would be REALLY surprised if people put THAT much time/money in to building out a Grom/Z125 out for a race with no money/trophy/podium. If they find it to be necessary to do all of that, well.... I dont know why anyone would. I also think it would be pretty apparent if someone wasnt "playing by the rules".

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:08 pm 
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I was joking but I do know (and you do to) people who would go to that extreme. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:47 pm 
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We don't need to stir the pot. We can cross that bridge when (if) we get there and it becomes a legitimate race. For the time being, it's a fun fundraiser that also gets some folks a bit more track time. No need to prod a sleeping dog. If someone wants to go crazy trying to do something that's on the same level as "winning" a track day, he or she has bigger issues to contend with.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Well the part I didn't say is that I had a conversation with the Kawasaki Regional Rep who mentioned there could be Kawasaki contingency money made available. And even the dealer seemed more interested in sponsoring these small bikes than anything to do with the bigger ones.

I've seen what happened to CCS Lightweights and our own 250 turned ULGT class. I'm interested in a class that looks like Moto3 did this weekend, with 16 bikes all finishing within 1 second.

IMHO, best to start at least thinking about the dog fence during our experimental fun year. It's just discussion.

Oh and BTW, I'm 1-1 against Adam in ULGT. It's time to settle that score :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:42 pm 
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This is why I was not interested in adding Groms. It's going to turn into a mess just like ULGT. The Groms were supposed to be a hassle free fundraiser, not an overinvolved race class. I foresee that not being the case moving forward. We're about to create hurt feelings no matter what direction the rules go. Can we not just leave things as is? Things seemed great at Hallett. In typical fashion, we're trying to solve problems that didn't need to exist.

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Last edited by bumpnzx3 on Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:21 pm 
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It's just discussion, and is ULGT really a mess? I guess I must be missing something because I still think it's the funnest class to watch. Certainly better than GTL right now and really the only class I get to actually watch. I really should make a change and watch all the classes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Not a mess, but the discussion was/is Each. And. Every. Time. we we start bringing up any kind of a senseless rule change. ULGT is fine now, but it was a mess previously each time an engine rule change was brought up. The Grom thing was great at Hallett. Leave it alone. No need to fix what is not broken. We end up looking unorganized and it creates more work for those behind the scenes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:53 am 
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Todd you are exactly right and that continues to be the consensus. This is an open forum to discuss Grom Prix and whatever else we want. Some may just have a different opinion is all. :shock:

I will address the concerns about time and resources spent by overworked track officials, a subject I feel very qualified to discuss as I've worked almost every position and at almost every weekend for the past 4 years. From my perspective, racing IS THE fun and why I do what I do.

Having said that, yes we always need more volunteers but that's a subject for a different post.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:30 am 
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What class has always runs smooth with no issues and no bickering on rules (Ex/Am GT)? What class/classes have typically been the "problem children" when it comes to trying to narrow the scope (ULGT)? Why is that? It's because GT is more or less a hands off, "run what you brung" kinda thing. Trying to make specific rules for the Groms will just turn it into the same shit show that happened with ULGT. That grid used to be much bigger and now we've managed to chase a lot of people away. We're not an organization that caters to every small class of racer. We don't have the bike count to make that feasible, we don't have the labor, nor do we have the time in the schedule. After all, we are a track day organization (and the track day riders are what allow us to put on events) that has the side benefit of giving new racers a place to get their feet wet. Want to get into some kind of specific class of racing (spec or otherwise)? Great. Come ride our track days, go through our licensing clinic, race with us a bit until you get a feel for what you're doing, then head off to whatever organization offers the specific kind of racing you're after.

*Some points taken from someone that I was discussing this with last night, that wishes to remain nameless*

I've said my piece and I'm done messing with it, but nothing will change. It seems that for some reason we (past, present, and/or future boards) cannot leave well enough alone. Several of us say that we know our place in the track day and/or road racing world, but it doesn't seem like we do. We're constantly trying to carve out a specific niche, when in fact our niche is that we are a broad organization; we can take you from being a track day newbie to a fairly seasoned racer. We're constantly trying to solve problems that don't exist in our small piece of the racing world, when we should be worrying more about the track day riders. We don't need to be everything to every type of racer; that's just not MCRA.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:35 am 
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I think you're confusing bickering with discussion. It's hard to tell in print but I don't believe a single person in this thread is bickering, just throwing out ideas. I actually enjoyed the 250 discussion and thought it was healthy and we ended up with a really good thing out of it. We've already made a change by having Groms, just like we did the exhibition year of the 250s. I personally didn't care weather we added them or not but I like seeing people get excited about it. Don't want to squash that. The Groms and even the 250s aren't my kinda thing but they've definitely brought a lot more fun and excitement (and more racers and members) to our program. I am only on board if 1) we can fit them into our existing program, 2) they help the club somehow at least break even for a weekend. That's what the discussion is for. In the end, we may see it just doesn't make sense, or maybe it does.

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